Warren Commission (08 of 26): Hearings Vol. VIII (of 15)

Warren Commission (08 of 26): Hearings Vol. VIII (of 15)

United States. Warren Commission
United States. Warren Commission

Author: United States. Warren Commission
John F. (John Fitzgerald)
1917-1963 — Assassination
Lee Harvey
Warren Commission (08 of 26): Hearings Vol. VIII (of 15)
Cover created by Transcriber and placed in the Public Domain.


Before the President’s Commission
on the Assassination
of President Kennedy

Pursuant To Executive Order 11130, an Executive order creating a Commission to ascertain, evaluate, and report upon the facts relating to the assassination of the late President John F. Kennedy and the subsequent violent death of the man charged with the assassination and S.J. Res. 137, 88th Congress, a concurrent resolution conferring upon the Commission the power to administer oaths and affirmations, examine witnesses, receive evidence, and issue subpenas

For sale in complete sets by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office Washington, D.C., 20402


Chief Justice Earl Warren, Chairman

  • Senator Richard B. Russell
  • Senator John Sherman Cooper
  • Representative Hale Boggs
  • Representative Gerald R. Ford
  • Mr. Allen W. Dulles
  • Mr. John J. McCloy
  • J. Lee Rankin, General Counsel
  • Assistant Counsel
  • Francis W. H. Adams
  • Joseph A. Ball
  • David W. Belin
  • William T. Coleman, Jr.
  • Melvin Aron Eisenberg
  • Burt W. Griffin
  • Leon D. Hubert, Jr.
  • Albert E. Jenner, Jr.
  • Wesley J. Liebeler
  • Norman Redlich
  • W. David Slawson
  • Arlen Specter
  • Samuel A. Stern
  • Howard P. WillensA
  • Staff Members
  • Phillip Barson
  • Edward A. Conroy
  • John Hart Ely
  • Alfred Goldberg
  • Murray J. Laulicht
  • Arthur Marmor
  • Richard M. Mosk
  • John J. O’Brien
  • Stuart Pollak
  • Alfredda Scobey
  • Charles N. Shaffer, Jr.

Biographical information on the Commissioners and the staff can be found in the Commission’s Report.

A Mr. Willens also acted as liaison between the Commission and the Department of Justice.


The testimony of the following witnesses is contained in volume VIII: Edward Voebel, William E. Wulf, Bennierita Smith, Frederick S. O’Sullivan, Mildred Sawyer, Anne Boudreaux, Viola Peterman, Myrtle Evans, Julian Evans, Philip Eugene Vinson, and Hiram Conway, who were associated with Lee Harvey Oswald in his youth; Lillian Murret, Marilyn Dorothea Murret, Charles Murret, John M. Murret, and Edward John Pic, Jr., who were related to Oswald; John Carro, Dr. Renatus Hartogs, and Evelyn Grace Strickman Siegel, who came into contact with Oswald while he was in New York during his youth; Nelson Delgado, Daniel Patrick Powers, John E. Donovan, Lt. Col. A. G. Folsom, Jr., Capt. George Donabedian, James Anthony Botelho, Donald Peter Camarata, Peter Francis Connor, Allen D. Graf, John Rene Heindel, David Christie Murray, Jr., Paul Edward Murphy, Henry J. Roussel, Jr., Mack Osborne, Richard Dennis Call, and Erwin Donald Lewis, who testified regarding Oswald’s service in the Marine Corps; Martin Isaacs and Pauline Virginia Bates, who saw Oswald when he returned from Russia; and Max E. Clark, George A. Bouhe, Anna N. Meller, Elena A. Hall, John Raymond Hall, Mrs. Frank H. Ray (Valentina); and Mr. and Mrs. Igor Vladimir Voshinin, who became acquainted with Oswald and/or his wife after their return to Texas in 1962.


Preface v
Testimony of—
Edward Voebel 1
William E. Wulf 15
Bennierita Smith 21
Frederick S. O’Sullivan 27
Mildred Sawyer 31
Anne Boudreaux 35
Viola Peterman 38
Myrtle Evans 45
Julian Evans 66
Philip Eugene Vinson 75
Hiram Conway 84
Lillian Murret 91
Marilyn Dorothea Murret 154
Charles Murret 180
John M. Murret 188
Edward John Pic, Jr 196
John Carro 202
Renatus Hartogs 214
Evelyn Grace Strickman Siegel 224
Nelson Delgado 228
Daniel Patrick Powers 266
John E. Donovan 289
Allison G. Folsom, Jr 303
George Donabedian 311
James Anthony Botelho 315
Donald Peter Camarata 316
Peter Francis Connor 317
Allen D. Graf 317
John Rene Heindel 318
David Christie Murray, Jr 319
Paul Edward Murphy 319
Henry J. Roussel, Jr 320
Mack Osborne 321
Richard Dennis Call 322
Erwin Donald Lewis 323
Martin Isaacs 324
Pauline Virginia Bates 330
Max E. Clark 343
George A. Bouhe 355
Anna N. Meller 379
Elena A. Hall 391
John Raymond Hall 406
Mrs. Frank H. Ray (Valentina) 415
Mrs. Igor Vladimir Voshinin 425
Igor Vladimir Voshinin 448


Bates Exhibit No. 1 340
Carro Exhibit No. 1 213
Donabedian Exhibit No. 1 312
Folsom Exhibit No. 1 304
Hartogs Exhibit No. 1 220
Isaacs Exhibit No.:
1 328
2 328
3 328
Siegel Exhibit No.:
1 227
2 228

Hearings Before the President’s Commission
on the
Assassination of President Kennedy


The testimony of Edward Voebel was taken on April 7, 1964, at the Old Civil Courts Building, Royal and Conti Streets, New Orleans, La., by Mr. Albert E. Jenner, Jr., assistant counsel of the President’s Commission.
Edward Voebel, 4916 Canal Street, New Orleans, La., after first being duly sworn, testified as follows:
Mr. Jenner. You are Edward Voebel?
Mr. Voebel. That’s right.
Mr. Jenner. And you live at 4916 Canal Street in New Orleans?
Mr. Voebel. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner. Where is your place of business?
Mr. Voebel. At the same place.
Mr. Jenner. They are both at the same place, 4916 Canal Street?
Mr. Voebel. That’s right.
Mr. Jenner. And that’s here in New Orleans?
Mr. Voebel. Yes.
Mr. Jenner. And you are associated in business, I believe, with your mother and father, are you not?
Mr. Voebel. Mother, uncle, and grandmother.
Mr. Jenner. Your mother, your uncle, and your grandmother?
Mr. Voebel. That’s right.
Mr. Jenner. And what is your business?
Mr. Voebel. Quality Florist Co.
Mr. Jenner. What is your age, Mr. Voebel?
Mr. Voebel. I am 23.
Mr. Jenner. You received a letter from Mr. Rankin, general counsel of the Warren Commission, did you not?
Mr. Voebel. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner. And enclosed with the letter were a copy of Senate Joint Resolution 137, authorizing the creation of the Commission to investigate the assassination of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy; is that right?
Mr. Voebel. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner. And Executive Order No. 11130, of President Lyndon B. Johnson appointing that Commission and fixing its powers and duties; is that right?
Mr. Voebel. Yes.
Mr. Jenner. And a copy of the rules and regulations under which we take testimony before the Commission and also by way of deposition, such as this one. You received that also?
Mr. Voebel. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner. I take it you gather from those documents that the Commission is enjoined to investigate all of the facts and circumstances surrounding and bearing upon the assassination of the late President John Fitzgerald Kennedy.
Mr. Voebel. Yes.
Mr. Jenner. I am Albert E. Jenner. Jr., member of the legal staff of the Commission, and I am here with my associate, Mr. Liebeler, taking depositions here in New Orleans, which is the birthplace of Lee Harvey Oswald, and making inquiries of those who in the ordinary course of their lives had some contact with this man, and also other aspects of the assassination. Now, it is our understanding that you did have some contact with him; is that right?
Mr. Voebel. Yes.
Mr. Jenner. I would like to ask you a few questions about that.
Mr. Voebel. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner. When did you first become acquainted with Lee Harvey Oswald, and under which circumstances? Just tell me generally how that came about.
Mr. Voebel. Well, it was at school.
Mr. Jenner. Is that Beauregard Junior High School?
Mr. Voebel. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner. Do you know what year that was?
Mr. Voebel. Let’s see. I will have to figure that out. That was about 1954 or 1955.
Mr. Jenner. How did you become aware of him?
Mr. Voebel. Going to school there. Do you want me to tell you the whole story?
Mr. Jenner. Well, let’s get in a few preliminary remarks first. I would like to have a little background in the record before we go into that.
Mr. Voebel. Yes, sir. I don’t exactly remember when I first saw him, because I might have seen him going to school and back without knowing who it was, but I really became acquainted with him when he had this fight with this boy, and we took him back into the boy’s restroom and tried to patch him up a bit.
Mr. Jenner. Were there individuals involved in this fight that you remember?
Mr. Voebel. Yes.
Mr. Jenner. Tell me the circumstances of that, please.
Mr. Voebel. Well, the day before, maybe a couple of days before, Lee had a fight with a couple of boys.
Mr. Jenner. Do you know their names?
Mr. Voebel. They were the Neumeyer boys, John and Mike.
Mr. Jenner. John and Mike?
Mr. Voebel. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner. They were classmates?
Mr. Voebel. Yes. Well, I think one of them was in the same grade as Lee. One was older than the other one. The younger one was maybe a grade or two below Lee, and Lee was in a fight with John, the older one.
Mr. Jenner. Let’s see if I have that straight now. Lee was in a fight with the elder of two Neumeyer brothers; is that right?
Mr. Voebel. Right. He was in a fight with John Neumeyer. The fight, I think started on the school ground, and it sort of wandered down the street in the direction naturally in which I was going.
Mr. Jenner. Was it a protracted fight?
Mr. Voebel. Protracted?
Mr. Jenner. Yes; did it keep going on?
Mr. Voebel. Yes, it kept going on, across lawns and sidewalks, and people would run them off, and they would only run to the next place, and it continued that way from block to block, and as people would run them off of one block, they would go on to the next.
Mr. Jenner. That was fisticuffs; is that right?
Mr. Voebel. Right.
Mr. Jenner. Were they about the same age?
Mr. Voebel. Oswald and John?
Mr. Jenner. Yes.
Mr. Voebel. I don’t know; I guess so.
Mr. Jenner. How about size?
Mr. Voebel. I think John was a little smaller, a little shorter than Lee.
Mr. Jenner. Do you know what caused the fight?
Mr. Voebel. No; I don’t. I don’t remember that.
Mr. Jenner. But you followed this fight from place to place, did you not?
Mr. Voebel. Yes.
Mr. Jenner. Why, were you curious?
Mr. Voebel. Yes; and well, it was also on my way home, going that way. The fight traveled my route home.
Mr. Jenner. All right, what happened as this fight progressed down the street?
Mr. Voebel. Well, I think Oswald was getting the best of John, and the little brother sticking by his brother, stepped in too, and then it was two against one, so with that Oswald just seemed to give one good punch to the little brother’s jaw, and his mouth started bleeding.
Mr. Jenner. Whose mouth?
Mr. Voebel. Mike Neumeyer.
Mr. Jenner. The little boy?
Mr. Voebel. Yes, sir. Mike’s mouth started bleeding, and when that happened, the whole sympathy of the crowd turned against Oswald for some reason, which I didn’t understand, because it was two against one, and Oswald had a right to defend himself. In a way, I felt that this boy got what he deserved, and in fact, later on I found out that this boy that got his mouth cut had been in the habit of biting his lip. Oswald might have hit him on the shoulder or something, and the boy might have bit his lip, and it might have looked like Oswald hit him in the mouth, but anyway, somebody else came out and ran everybody off then, and the whole sympathy of the crowd was against Lee at that time because he had punched little Mike in the mouth and made his mouth bleed. I don’t remember anything that happened after that, but I think I just went on home and everybody went their way, and then the next day or a couple of days later we were coming out of school in the evening, and Oswald, I think, was a little in front of me and I was a couple of paces behind him, and I was talking with some other people, and I didn’t actually see what happened because it all happened so quick.
Some big guy, probably from a high school—he looked like a tremendous football player—punched Lee right square in the mouth, and without him really knowing or seeing really who did it. I don’t know who he was, and he ran off. That’s when we ran after Lee to see if we could help him.
Mr. Jenner. He just swung one lick and ran?
Mr. Voebel. Yes; that’s what they call passing the post. He passed the post on him.
Mr. Jenner. Passed the post, what’s that?
Mr. Voebel. That’s when somebody walks up to you and punches you. That’s what’s called punching the post, and someone passed the post on Lee at that time.
Mr. Jenner. You think that might have happened because of the squabble he had with the two Neumeyer boys a day or two before?
Mr. Voebel. Yes; I think that was what brought it all about. I think this was sort of a revenge thing on the part of the Neumeyer boys, so that’s when I felt sympathy toward Lee for something like this happening, and a

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